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Post by kurgan on Apr 24, 2007 22:19:24 GMT -5
After playing this game for a little while now, I do have one main criticism. It's the whole humans are nigh unstoppable with buildings that regenerate and mecha that can easily defeat a kaiju. Now I know this is the future, but this is also a kaiju rpg. What's the point in having an aggressive kaiju that's only going to get it's ass handed to it time and time again? In such a society, as powerful as the humans are, why not just have them corral all the cute, cuddly, and useful kaiju on one island and exterminate the rest? I've also toyed with the idea of an alien invasion, even talked about coordinating one with Gigan, but the more I think about it, the more I think it's pointless, why bother if it's going to be a total no win situation? In past KW's the kaiju where allowed to be kaiju, cities got messed up like they should in the kaiju genre and aliens where a major threat. This rpg shouldn't be called Kaiju Wars. A war would imply that the humans could loose, a war would imply that the threat to humanity was real. I feel that the kaiju in this rpg are emasculated, robbed of the aura of menace they've exuded in the past and the power they posses. Also, would any of us, watch a kaiju movie where the kaiju invaded a city and barely made a scratch while the humans easily kicked it's ass? No, we'd be complaining that the monster was robbed of it's power. Kaiju should be seen as Godly, powerfull, and dengerous creatures, Armaggedon incarnate. They shouldn't neccesarily be indestructable, but their arrival and presence in a city should be enough to make people defecate themselves, not take bets on how long the invader is going to last against the defense forces.
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fang
Basic Player - Level 1
Thousand Years of Pain!
Posts: 42
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Post by fang on Apr 24, 2007 22:41:44 GMT -5
refer to my rant in 'The San Fransisco Threat' for my input on this. the short of it is that i agree fully.
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Post by Daemon on Apr 25, 2007 0:10:37 GMT -5
I personaly agree as well. What's the point of giant city smashing Kaiju when you basicly cut the nuts off of said Kaiju and make em pretty much useless. I mean, they've gone from major threat to almost a fucking household pest!
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Post by PyrasTerran on Apr 25, 2007 1:15:58 GMT -5
Before we can keep going further we need to be sure that we know and have all the info on the table. First to know that the reason cities were made tougher was to keep all the cities from being destroyed within the first month of the game's play, turning it into a big jarbled mess.
This is a quote from KOS which also brings up a gameplay element that KoS and Goji have been trying to encourage:
Speak of your opinion on these words, so we can better assess the problem.
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Post by kurgan on Apr 25, 2007 9:00:59 GMT -5
This would be find and dandy if everyone where allowed to start off with at least one intermediate kaiju. However, it takes at least 200 posts to reach such a level and let's face it, not all of us are going to reach that level of posts quickly, if anything' it'll take a few months to reach that level. Who wants to waite that long to tackle a city? Also I have yet to see a scenario that would allow a kaiju to upgrade. I stand by my opinion as said before about the current situation. As Daemon so eloquently stated, you've basically cut the nuts off the kaiju. If you people are worried about all the cities being destroyed, perhaps you could just state that over time, after numerous attacks, the humans learned to rebuild faster, using more prefabricated parts than in the past. I also have no problem with mecha being able to take on kaiju, but it shouldn't be all units, maybe each staff member could have one or two units akin to the Super-X or Gohtengo, something not mass produced, but unique. A kaiju shouldn't be getting it's ass handed to it by what are basically tanks and jets, if anything, the tanks and jets should be getting annihilated by the kaiju. If you people want to make capitol cities this uber, I'm fine with it, but what I don't agree with is every city, town, and village, being like this. Changes need to be made or this rpg is going to start losing players and people who might consider joining may look away. Two of your staff members agree with me here Pyras, one of which is fairly well respected. That alone should indicate that something is wrong here. The point of me starting this thread isn't to whine, but to bring to the staff attention, what I see as a major flaw in this rpg that I would like to help fix.
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Enaugmulaus
Basic Player - Level 1
I LIKE SMILEYS!
Posts: 38
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Post by Enaugmulaus on Apr 25, 2007 9:03:25 GMT -5
This is for Daemon and everyone who wants City destroying, world ending, ass kicking kaiju right off the bat with no RP effort.
Go read the new Story Kaiju Pyras just made. That is an Advanced Kaiju. and if thats not enough to make yall see how small in comparison your kaiju is now if you played in the last kaiju wars (i didn't) and had your 'advanced' kaiju then, put him in a fight with your current kaiju and see just how long it takes to watch your Basic Kaiju cry like a child.
And as for a reply to pyras's quote, i agree, not being able to formulate any more constructive thoughts ill leave it at that.
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Post by kurgan on Apr 25, 2007 9:23:06 GMT -5
I'm not saying there should be no effort, but 200 posts to get an intermediate kaiju, bullshit. Hell, a majority of the staff members havn't even reached 200 posts yet. Maybe drop the intermediate level down to 50 or 100 posts. That still requires plenty of effort without requiring that we devot our lives entirly to the rpg just so we can get the privilage of getting to use a kaiju that can do what a kaiju is supposed to be able to do.
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Post by King of Slackers on Apr 25, 2007 11:03:06 GMT -5
This thread should be renamed "Kurgan and Fang's Rant-O-rama", as it only seems to be you two raising a ruckus at this moment. (It's normal for Big D to raise ruckus of all kinds, so I'd be surprised if we didn't hear something out of him by now, so he doesn't count.) Anyways.... You guys had been told from Day One what to expect from this game, specifically what to expect if you had your Basic Kaiju waltz into a city thinking it's gonna be king of the castle. We told you all. If you guys didn't take us seriously, well then you have no one to fault but yourselves. This topic was touched upon several times, including in the FAQ section. The curious and/or smart ones asked questions, got their clarification, and played accordingly. What did you two do? Assumed that this was going to be a standared KW game where you all could tear-ass through every major city in the world in less than 2 months. You know what happens when you destroy humanity in a KW games? Nothing happens. Because there are suddenly no more humans to move the plot forward or to enslave/conquer or whatever, and you all would basically have killed off the only characters with real personality (or at least, the ones that are supposed to have real personalities and not just monster ones). The humans are tough like this for several reasons, several key ones already being mentioned by Pyras earlier. And as Enaugulamaus also pointed out, an Advanced Kaiju, the ones expected to destroy cities, are so far out of the league of the monsters running around now that it's not even funny. Another reason, which was made mention of in the lovely backstory (brought to us by Ozma) is that humans went through such a terribly cataclysmic event that the ones that survived did so by being the best of the world, by being more cutting edge then everyone else, and by challeninging the gods with their tenacity and will to live. Though Kaiju played a small part in this World War III, it was mostly wrought by humans. And the ones that lived eanred it and can pretty much handle anything tossed at them. They have the tech, they have the time, and most of all, they have the drive. They already went through Hell on Earth once. They'll be damned if they let it happen again. So this game generally has the upper hand on the Kaiju. So what? Kaiju are still threats. They're not just "household pests". They're forces of nature. And while humans dominate the planet, they don't control everything. You can still attack cities, believe it or not. You've just been warned that if you prolong your stay, you can be killed. Nothing prevents you from "raiding" a city; ie, storming in, causing damage, then leaving when the heat gets too high. This is still "Kaiju Wars". But unlike any other War, it's the Kaiju who are on the defending team, while the humans (finally) enjoy the advantage of being the superior force. And you know what? It's a long time in coming. Six years time, to be precise. The humans have always been put down, underestimated, ignorred, and generally exterminated by the thousands because the Kaiju never gave a crap about them before. But now the boot's on the other shoe. And unlike when the Kaiju had the lead, at least the humans are leaving the monsters alone. Any and all woes that Kaiju suffer at the hands of humans now, for the most part, are because the Kaiju are threatening them. Humanity can finally defend itself on an equal footing with the monsters that have terrorized them for so very long. And Fang, as a staff member, this falls heavier on you. You are expected to hold up our policies, first and foremost of the game ones is keeping the cities alive. Even if your Kaiju characters decide to wreck the places, it's part of your duty as staff to oppose all comers with the might of the city defenses. The fact that you didn't realize the severity of what this implies is shocking; it shows that you're not taking this seriously at all, and that you didn't even bother to ask what this meant you would be doing. As for lowering posts counts, that's an entirely different matter, one that has already been discussed several times, and that we still talk about. I know some staff members still think that the counts should be lowered (I half-heartedly agree), but still some more (including Goji) believe that if players just started to interact with each other more then post count wouldn't be a problem. That's why the Public Challenge Board was set up. So you can post which characters you have free and healthy and see who wants to fight/RP with them. If no one's answering, then it'll usually mean one of two things: Everyone's busy ( unlikely), or people don't want to get their Kaiju involved in what they'd think would be meaningless altercations and would prefer to carry on their own miniature schemes on their own in the hopes that someone will react to them (which no one will do, because everyone else is either busy, waiting for an answer to their challenges, or scheming just like them). And frankly guys, it's too early for that kind of scheming. Basic Kaiju shouldn't really be the "take over the world" type. That's what Intermediate and Advanced levels are for. Granted, it's already too late for some of you, but as a word to the wise, and for posterity, try and avoid making a Basic Kaiju that's going to do nothing but get ahead of itself with delusions of grandeur in a world that can deal with a monster of it's level. You already knew (or were supposed to, at least) more than half of everything I just talked about. I don't see much being changed in the foreseeable future. If you want to destroy cities, go earn it by getting a stronger Kaiju. As for post counts, I don't know what to tell you. I'd like to see them lowered, but The Man in Charge doesn't think we need to do that.
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Post by Daemon on Apr 25, 2007 11:16:48 GMT -5
Ok Sam? Other guy I have no idea who he is so in all honesty could care, BITE ME. Accusing me of causing any ruckus this time is bull. I just stated an opinion, one that apparently Im not the only one who shares. I don't believe we should go back to the whole every city is food like in the last game. But I also think it's wrong that Kaiju have been reduced to household pests because they HAVE. I mean, you raid a city, it grows back up and there is a good chance you end up dead doing it. I also have another opinion after sitting and thinking about it, yes this has been up for awhile ((I didn't know because I only read the rules on the game and sped read the history)) so any complaint should have been made awhile ago.
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fang
Basic Player - Level 1
Thousand Years of Pain!
Posts: 42
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Post by fang on Apr 25, 2007 11:34:15 GMT -5
that's all fine and dandy, but you seem to forget that this is KAIJU wars, not HUMAN wars. kaiju have always been the superior force, they will always be the superior force, and when they arent, people won't take it seriously. and you want proof? what do you think is happening right now. yeah, me and Kurgs are the only ones complaining, and D, well, he just wants a fight like always, but how many times have you had to remind people about the strength of your human defences and they didn't take it seriously. the fect that people are not following your little rule just means that people don't thing that it belongs here. i'm dissapointed at how small of a role you expect kaiju to play when juxtaposed with previous kaiju wars incarnations. i'm even more dissapointed that you expect people to just go along with it. yeah, i might be a mod, and i will still enforce rules that are necessary to be enforced. but i can't stand for this. in my opinionation, it's the ruination of the force of nature aspect of kaiju. and anything that dessicrates my beloved kaiju is not something i can follow. now i'v been given orders to not cause argument over such things, but i can't sit down and shut up and take something like this. the bottom line is that this is about KAIJU, not humans. and if this continues this threatens that purpose. you say that this is a Kurgan and Fang rant thread. let the people speak. lets take a poll. let the members decide if this is fair. what say you?
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Post by kurgan on Apr 25, 2007 11:45:10 GMT -5
I wasn't trying to cause a ruckus, I had a legitimate complaint. I was aware of things before, despite what you say KOS, however I decided to be a good sport and try things before I developed an opinion because I was raised not to knock something until I've tried it. I tried it, I didn't like it, and I'm saying so. I had hoped the staff could make a compromise as I'm not the only person who is not happy with the way things are, but it's not going to happen. That said, I have decided to leave this rpg. Why? Quite simply, I'm not having fun and I'm not liking the direction it's going. I'm not trying to be a martyr, nor am I asking anyone to follow me. I'm leaving because I'm unsatisfied with this rpg. I apologize to Goji, Fang, Daemon, Lord Vader, Trik, and Gigan because I feel I've let you down, however, I can't stay and pretend I like things when I don't. I have deleted Qordah's profile as I don't want anyone using him however, anyone who wishes to use Red King may do so as he's not an original. I've made sure that my characters are no longer in any threads so I'm not holding anyone up. I have never quit a Kaiju Wars before, nor have I ever had a major complaint with one like this. Hopefully, this will be the first and last time I do so. Good-bye.
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Post by King of Slackers on Apr 25, 2007 12:23:12 GMT -5
Daemon, in case you didn't get it, it was a friendly poke in the ribs, not a belittlement of your person. I like hearing your outrageous comments and opinions, as they are unorthodoxly insightfull, if in a crude and rude way (which I've always been a big fan of, still am). I'd also think that you'd relish the opportunity to fire up a G-Force defender and blast away reckless and dangerous monsters when they attack the city (which is what our Story Mecha in-the-works are designed for).
And as for Kurgan, well, that's a crying shame. Truly. I do not like the prospect of losing members. Especially members who I've kept an eye on for future projects that I knew they'd like to take part in. I had at least two specificalyl in mind that his unique playstyle would have been suited to majestically, and it pains me severely not having him around. I hope he reconsiders, but I'd understand if he doesn't.
And as for what I say, Fang, I say I've had enough. You say this is supposed to be a forum for opinion and registration of thought? Then you go and retaliate in extremes when I state my own opinions and thoughts? How is that fair and just? You all rally for a call to arms practically, and as soon as I show my face, instead of fairly weighing my words, you just start up even fiercer. Then you go and lay down ludicrous claims at my feet to boot. "Desicrate you beloved Kaiju"? "Ruination of the forces and aspects of Kaiju"? Who died and made you the end-all and be-all of all things monster? The game is STILL about Kaiju. Nothing has ever been hinted to the contrary. And you're taking what makes this site unique from all the others and twisting and making it out as if it's some great biblical evil. You dare call me unjust and unfair, yet you sit their on your high horse looking down on me? Accusing me of the very same unfairness that, so far, you've been perpetuating all on your lonesome? Even I have to put up with a lot of things I don't like. But there are plenty of things here that I do like, and I;m not giving up on something that I, personally, have worked so hard on. And I think it's terribly unfair of all of you to do so as well. So you can't attack cities now. No one ever said you couldn't ever. I'd actually love it to see a good strong Kaiju finally appear and lay waste to my precious cities, because I'd feel vindicated that a player's finally become strong enough to do so. Thus far, this is the most focus the humans have ever had on the site, this argument right here. They make one major appearance, one big stand in the game world, and suddenly everyone's thinking that the Kaiju are no longer important. Do you all realize how bogus that is sounding? Do you? The Kaiju are still freaking everywhere, and when the humans make one effort to defend themselves, you all scream bloody murder. I ask you, how is your handling of this situation any better than mine? Because at the very least, I have been civil thus far.
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Post by Goji on Apr 25, 2007 12:37:04 GMT -5
Listen up, everyone. I'm sick of this and I'm ending it.
Basic Kaiju cannot attack a city and win. Period. But guess what?! OH MY GOD, INTERMEDIATE AND ADVANCE CAN! Who would have EVER thought?!
Now before someone AGAIN whines about the post counts being too high, maybe you could learn a little bit of patience. I want this game to go on indefinitely. If I give you intermediate and advanced at such a low level, there will be nothing left of the game within a week.
When you earn the right to make a powerful kaiju, it WILL destroy cities. It WILL destroy armies. It WILL destroy weaker kaiju. Just wait for it, okay?
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fang
Basic Player - Level 1
Thousand Years of Pain!
Posts: 42
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Post by fang on Apr 25, 2007 17:06:40 GMT -5
Kurgan left. he's gone. does that mean anything to you? it's hard evidence that something is wrong. when members leave because you didn't listen to what they had to say it's not a good sign. well, i'm not going to drop this. even less now that someone's left because of it. there's a problem here. and it needs fixin. there was two voices on this. you ignored them, and now theres only one voice. if that tells you nothing, then your abilities as moderators. but i need to stop before i loose my tempur. a member being driven away by something like this is just infuriating to me.
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Bahamut
Basic Player - Level 2
Posts: 50
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Post by Bahamut on Apr 26, 2007 15:36:50 GMT -5
Alright guys, you know this is bad when i catches MY attention. Everyone here has a very valid point. Fang, Daemon, Slacker, Pyras, even Enaugmulaus. But the fact of the matter is that you all also have bad points as well. Here are my two cents...
First off, I agree that the city defense forces are way to damn strong. Godzilla started off as your basic kaiju, and no army could take him down. Rodan, Gamera, Mothra, hell even biolante couldn't be stopped by the humans. The only man made weapon that stood up against the other kaiju and in many cases won was Mecha Godzilla; Kirryu. The instant rebuilding of a city i can completely understand. BUT we're a 100 years in the future and man has done a fantastic job of adapting to its enviroment. The humans want to defend there home and they will. As for the amount of posts for stronger kaiju, i agree 100% with goji, make more kaiju, post more, and you'll have your super saijyn kaiju running around in under a month. Should basic kaiju be able to destroy a city with ease?? No.. should they be killed like a fly to a bug zapper? NO. So guess what, don't go wondering into a city if you're a weak kaiju. The defense may seem overwhelming, but its there for a reason, don't like it? Leave. that simple
That my opinion.
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