Ateris
Basic Player - Level 2
So, tell me....Are you scared yet?
Posts: 84
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Post by Ateris on Apr 25, 2007 20:33:22 GMT -5
I know this is your site, Goji, but I thought I would just put this forth.
Personally, yes it's nice humanity has a chance. It seems to be something new and cool, which is fine. But it needs to be toned down. Personally, I would like to see humanity equal kaiju but not surpass them. This would allow for desperate battles versus kaiju and encourage tactics. And when cities get hit, it would be long threads where humanity fights against the might and natural power of the kaiju. And we would be more encouraged to post by it.
Also, I know tanks and planes are powerful, but wouldn't a kaiju be able to take them on with not as much trouble as shown in the San Francisco thread? At least with those?
But yes, I would think having humanity and kaiju fighting on an even level would be awesome. We could keep the fast healing cities part and have cities able to regenerate quickly from attacks. And Basic would not do much damage to cities, and we could have epic battles of humanity driving out the kaiju. Their numbers and tech versus raw might and tenacity.
This is just a suggestion, Goji, KOS, etc. I only want to help the site.
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Post by BS Digital Q on Apr 25, 2007 20:47:40 GMT -5
I largely agree.
While the notion of humanity being able to take on the kaiju and not get crushed like they normally do is a stroke of genuis, I feel the idea may have been taken too far. Though I understand the logic of basic kaiju being more vulnerable to death than the higher tiers, its rather offputting when there are no real alternatives. Territory control, I'm sorry to say, doesn't sound like much to me as a prospective player.
Thats my opinion. I'm not totally against the idea, I just think it may have been taken too far. Especially considering the wait until we can access higher level kaiju (which, thank heavens, you lowered the post count for).
I guess its all moot, since you changed some of the above. But we'll just have to learn how creatively get around these things.
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fang
Basic Player - Level 1
Thousand Years of Pain!
Posts: 42
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Post by fang on Apr 25, 2007 21:45:16 GMT -5
you see. shutting me up is fine and dandy, but i'v succeeded. people are aware of the problem now. People of Kaiju wars, please, come and speak your mind. let the administration know what you want. don't let yourself be ignored. you said i was trying to undermine you, trying to rebel. my alegence is to Kaiju wars and it's members, not to the administration. who have done nothing but turn their backs on what people have to say since the beginning. and now i'v been fired for not shutting up when i was told to do so. well i won't stand for it. what say you?
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Post by PyrasTerran on Apr 25, 2007 22:20:16 GMT -5
Okay, fang, seriously?
you're letting this get to your damn head. You're not some free world liberal-thinking rebel trying to rise up against the curtains of fascist authoritarian dictators.
The staff has not 'done nothing but turn backs', and to accuse such is ridiculous. You REALLY need to learn when to stop talking because you're not making anything any better from this point on.
Onto the topic.
I feel that this is an issue that needs to be taken seriously with Goji and KoS. No, this is not fang's doing. This is simply people speaking out having been given the chance, and obviously, more people disliked the system than once thought. This can't be regarded as people suddenly getting fussy for no reason, and it doesn't matter whether or not they knew how the system worked form the start. They know now. They've seen it in action. If they honestly do not like it all that much, honestly, who are we the staff to say we can't change?
These RPG forums, at its core, are a service, not a self-service. At the most a symbiotic relationship. Without staff members, regular members have a convoluted mess and without regular members to both fill up the world and regulate the actions of the staff members, we as a staff and site cannot progress.
Through my experiences at HEROES, I've learned the above, and it is crucial to the survival of an RPG. We the staff are here to cater to the needs of the members, it is not the other way around, and we need to take what others say more seriously, it doesn't matter if it's ten members or one member.
But hark, you guys mayhaps should have read what Goji had written in the News section...
You can rest assured, changes will be made.
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Post by Ozma on Apr 25, 2007 23:52:18 GMT -5
Well put. I'll vouch for all that, by my personal experience alongside homeboy there =P
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Ateris
Basic Player - Level 2
So, tell me....Are you scared yet?
Posts: 84
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Post by Ateris on Apr 26, 2007 5:06:55 GMT -5
I know Goji's changing things, I read the news post. I am just offering to you, the staff, some ideas for that change. Thats all. *shrugs* Thought I'd do my part.
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fang
Basic Player - Level 1
Thousand Years of Pain!
Posts: 42
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Post by fang on Apr 26, 2007 9:46:23 GMT -5
i know i sound all revoultionary, but the bottom line is that i'm getting tired of Goji just ignoring everything everyone has to say. and i'm really tired of the argument that it's me against everyone else, because as it stands, i have more members on my side than you do on yours. so seriously, cut the 'it's not a problem' bullshit. Kurgan left, Ateris told me he was considering leaving too if things don't get better, and the only thing keeping me here is my stubborn ness. just listen to the members. if you ignore what i have to say, fine. but listen to the members. it effects them and they should have the say. your ignorace has cost us one member already. and not some newb who's puting up a hissy fit. it was kurgan. Kurgan of all people to up and leave. open you fucking eyes people.
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Post by Goji on Apr 26, 2007 11:54:59 GMT -5
Fang, shut the fuck up, god.
I am sick of you accusing me of ignoring this. You know damn well I care. You also know that my internet access is limited. And you know that I've changed things. I haven't changed them in a complete 180 degree turn, and that just isn't going to happen. Let's face it, you just want things your way, it's YOU who dosen't give a shit about everyone else. We've ruined your chances at some little scheme you have in your head, and your pissed about it. So shut up.
If anyone BESIDES Fang has a legitimate problem, I'll do my best to handle it.
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Post by King of Slackers on Apr 26, 2007 12:18:11 GMT -5
Yeesh, a little steamed much eh....
Anyways.
Someone, somewhere, somehow, has their wires crossed. Seriously. If you guys look carefully in the San Fran thread, you will notice that, while it did take some creative thinking, Hyperion plowed through several wings of fighters with little to no trouble. How? Well, when he saw his ranged maneuvers were only crippling the jets, he closed for melee combat, and used his superior size and mass to overload the shields of the jets instantly and crush them in one swipe. And, while the Watcher underestimated the durability of the subs just a smidge, he also managed to destroy them. Granted, though, they did get their licks in. And if our dearly departed Quordah had botherd to turn around and shoot back at the legions of small hovertanks and strike mecha shooting at him, or even better step on them, he would have found them quite easy to pop. In fact, the only Kaiju on the site that has actually fallen to direct application of military might was Proteus. And it was still a concerted effort with another player's Kaiju.
The military, while powerfull, is not as powerfull as some would lead you to believe. Nowhere have I mentioned that a kaiju is going to fall merely to a small contingent of human craft.
No, the whole point is that the human defenses, while not super-powerfull individually, are legion. That's the catch. While a Kaiju is in a city, the human defenses just keep coming. Because that's the point, and always has been. The human defenses simply overwhelm the monster, not neccesarily blast it into oblivion immidiately. And several are going to require some thought to defeat, as the old kaiju tactic of destroying them with one mighty blast isn't going to always work. What makes these things tough is their advancement: they'll have specific anti-kaiju defenses (usually projected screens of some sort), and eventually deploy very powerfull anti-kaiju weaponry (drill-tipped missiles and cryorockets, for example). Don't just blast away wantonly. Take into account that the vehicle may have a trick up it's sleave. Because it just as often might as might not.
Thus far, humanity has only made one major stand, and that was in a major city. Smaller cities (if they still even exist), are at most going to have much poorer defenses. And a G-Force combat robot definetely won't make an appearance, unlike in the larger areas.
If you guys had just read the guidelines, you would have known this. This matter was even touched on in the FAQ section. It has never been, nor will it ever be, as serious as some people would have you believe. And instead of going to said people, come to us, directly: Goji, Pyras, Myself, Daemon, hell even Zilla should be able to take such questions easy as pie (and he's the new guy!). If at all possible, come to me directly. The others will admit it; I can defitively answer these questions more concisely and with better detail then they can.
And Pyras, while you do bring up several valid points, I have a few of my own. While we are always available to solve the needs, issues, and wants of our players, there are some things that can't or won't change no matter how hard they ask. That's the point of policy. Rules can (and often have) been changed, but policy can almost never change without affecting the entire balance of the whole game. Perfect example: Post Count and Human Defenses. The post count is a rule that has been changed. The Human Defenses are a policy that, while it has been elaborated on even further to clear up this perception of them that's been built, really hasn't been changed, and can't be.
So really, this relationship goes both ways. We make this site for players to play in and enjoy, and we do change things when we can or need to, but the players also have to understand that it's us running the joint and not them, and there are some things that just can't be changed. Players don't regulate the actions of the staff, either. Staff regulates their activities. If you let yourself be totally ruled by your players, you're not an administrator: you're a courtesy.
While it may be a service to them, it's still our establishment, and service is what we make it. We take what our players say very seriously. That's why we've changed rules so many damn times. But there are some things that can't be changed. If the players don't like it, oh well. They're free to leave. But so far, only one has actually left. Which is surprising, considering he left over something that, while he didn't like it, was probably the result of the generalized misconception that's been going around. If he actually PMed one of us head-guys about it, it probably would have been cleared up in mere hours, time between messages depending. And the only one remaining still making a big stink about it... well, I'm sure you all can come up with your own takes there.
And Ateris, I know Fang is your friend and all, but then that means you are probably more aware of his shennanigans than we are. Thus far, he's just caused serious grief for me, Goji, and Pyras, and it's not for as righteous a reason as he'd like you to believe. You know for a fact that, if I'm approached directly (like you did on AIM), I can be not only very amicable, but very helpfull, especially when it comes to insight on how the site works. You probably should have come to me for my side of this before coming to such conclusions, and it's not fair to me that you didn't.
So if you guys want a "Suggestion"? Come to the staff members who work on this site daily, constantly for the answers to the questions or the problems you're having before making a huge, multi-paragraphical rant about how horrible we are.
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Julio
Basic Player - Level 1
...Fuck Myspace
Posts: 31
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Post by Julio on Apr 26, 2007 12:41:20 GMT -5
Everybody really needs to calm down. I've taken the liberty of preparing chill pills for everybody, so take one and please mellow out so we can all get back to fighting each other in the game.
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Ateris
Basic Player - Level 2
So, tell me....Are you scared yet?
Posts: 84
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Post by Ateris on Apr 26, 2007 13:21:49 GMT -5
I know him yes, and he does go out of proportion but I do know somethings.
yes, the military can be defeated with help and all that. However, the focus has shifted off of kaiju to humanity. Everyone is focusing on humanity, its cities, its power, its, well, humanity. The fact being that to many here, many well-respected such as Daemon, Fang, and Kurgan, this is a little much. Giving humanity a chance is one thing, but though they have weaknesses, yes, most will not be able to take advantage of it. They just won't be able to, either because of their kaiju, or the situation.
The fact is the focus is supposed to be the kaiju and this just isn't it. The main focus has been to defeat humanity, which isn't what KW is about from what I have seen, read, and been told. It has a part but its mostly the kaiju relations. With how powerful things are for humanity, its not so anymore. Now, I can understand the basic kaiju thing, but well...
I have already written my ideas down as it is about this, so if you want, I can send them to you, KOS, Goji, etc etc. About it. Also, I am willing to talk on AIM, MSN, etc etc, im sure most are free to talk about this.
Cause, its nice you had this idea, KOS, and all, but if the members don't like it, and dont want it, either it goes, or the members goes, period.
Now. I am not as crazy as Fang is on this. I have been trying to be calm and simply show my.....anxieties about this issue.
So, if you want to talk to me about this, here are my messengers:
AIM: calaelen90 MSN: calaelen90@hotmail.com YIM: runemaster162000
Again, I am willing to send you my thoughts on it. I do not want it gone completely but I do believe it needs to be cut down. We just need to make changes with the idea that its about the kaiju, not humanity.
The last time we focused on humanity, when we made all these fleets, the kaiju were abandoned. I dont think anyone wants a repeat.
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Post by PyrasTerran on Apr 26, 2007 18:17:44 GMT -5
1) that doesn't make you totally ruled. 2) being an administrator and a courtesy should go hand in hand. 3) my findings have not steered me wrong thus far, so they really should be taken more to heart.
At any rate, changes to the rules have been made so rejoice, those who wished for it.
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